Think Bigger Series - Episode 12: Change Management – Supercharge your Workforce by Embedding the Right Values

[00:00:04] Welcome to SRG's podcast, the Think Bigger Series. A business podcast aimed at tackling key issues around the workplace and inspiring positive change. This podcast is hosted by me, Jacob Midwinter, Sales and Client Solutions Director at SRG. And me, Phillipa Clark, Operations Manager for SRG's Southern Hub.

[00:00:28] Hi, and welcome to another episode of the Think Bigger Series. I am really thrilled that we have a very cool guest today. I'm talking about a topic that is very close to my heart. But Phillipa, you've drawn me again, which is fantastic.

[00:00:44] And this is somebody that you reached out to because you've been really impressed with what's been going on with this company. So I'll hand over to you to introduce our guest today and talk to our audience about why we've got him on. So over to you.

[00:01:01] Yeah, thanks, Jacob. So, yeah, I've been working with Liam now for the past sort of coming up to three years. So I first started working with him when he joined his company. And I've just really watched Liam completely change things in terms of the culture, implementing change.

[00:01:21] And as an outsider looking in, it's been great to watch that journey and just see the positive impact that that's had on the business, for the employees. And I thought it'd be great to talk through that journey today to help our network,

[00:01:36] whether it be a new company that's setting out, that's about to go on this culturally journey, or whether it's a company that perhaps is facing some challenges and wants to sort of turn the ship around.

[00:01:47] So I just thought it'd be great to introduce Liam and just really hear about what he's done and how he's achieved that. Awesome. Sounds good. So Liam, this is Liam Taylor, CEO of Axol. Liam, welcome to our podcast. Morning guys.

[00:02:04] Thanks for thanks for having me and and Philip, I thank you for the kind words that you said about the change that you've seen witness as an outsider around Axol. Bioscience has over the last couple of years really proud to be involved in again.

[00:02:18] Thank you, Thierry, for that yourself and Jacob for allowing me some time this morning to talk about it. Really, really looking forward to it. So Liam, you've been at Axol coming up to three years or two years and eight months as you've reminded me. Yeah.

[00:02:37] What we're talking about is how to create this positive workplace culture. I think culture is going to talk about more and more. And I think when we go through tough times, as the economy is at the moment,

[00:02:52] some would say as we're going into this tough time and we know that there's certain talent shortages, etc. Hiring I think culture becomes even more important.

[00:03:03] So it would be great to, I guess, have a little dimmer into what you see is important in creating that positive workplace culture. If you can give an overview of that, that'd be fantastic. And then I'm sure Philip and I will have lots of questions following on.

[00:03:21] No, that'd be great.

[00:03:22] So I think it's probably best to really start back at the beginning, you know, to provide a little bit of context for the listeners and podcast to help them relate and understand the journey and the situation that myself and the leadership team and the board at Axol have been hugely supportive on this journey over the last couple of years.

[00:03:41] But I was approached to join Axol, a terrific stem cell IPSE research and product organization out of Cambridge. Loads of wonderful customers all over the world, customers that kept coming back to Axol. But I was brought in to affect positive change within the organization. The business was struggling.

[00:04:07] We had staff retention issues. We had some customers in the service part of our business that were not particularly satisfied. Yeah, we had a founder CEO who did an amazing job of getting early revenues and bringing those customers to the table.

[00:04:25] But to his credit got to the point where I need to bring someone else in who has been here before and understands where we need to go.

[00:04:35] But walking into the situation, it was very clear that there was a leadership vacuum on the back of the departure of that previous CEO and founder.

[00:04:47] The business itself in terms of its workforce was probably not at the level of maturity that I've been used to working at and one that I would expect, particularly serving a global customer base with some amazing names in there, which I'm hugely proud of.

[00:05:03] But what was very clear is that what you're looking for is to get the basic fundamentals right. And for me throughout my career, those fundamentals have been around getting the right values in the organization. And so, you know, there wasn't any at that point in time.

[00:05:24] I chose to pick four that had served me well throughout my career. Performance and accountability, transparency and honesty. And the honesty one was a little bit strange because for me, that's a hygiene factor of any individual. Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:45] You know, but needless to say that's what we had to put in place. And I was absolutely belligerent and ruthless with around walking and talking those behaviors and everything that I did with the team and with the individuals in the business.

[00:06:00] And any behaviors that I saw that were different to that, there was a quiet conversation within individuals that helped understand why. Always seek to understand first, never judge initially.

[00:06:12] And try and look at the way they've reacted or the response that they've given based on the situation that are in at that point in time. And then help shape their mindset to change and to embrace those values that you want to have in the organization.

[00:06:30] So they were the four that we originally kicked off at. But I think as the podcast goes on, I can tell the journey as we merged another business, how they morphed and then how they became. Not just my values, but also the entire organization's values.

[00:06:47] And it was once they decide themselves. I think that's really interesting because it's great. You know, you've got your kind of four pillars, let's say, the foundations of those values. I was recently reading and we ran a book club here.

[00:07:01] The book called Stand for Something by Brian Burkhart. I never pronounce his name correctly. I don't think I think it's Burkhart, B-U-R-K-H-A-R-T for those that are interested. And it's all about power, the power of building a brand people authentically love.

[00:07:20] So that's my kind of first question to you. You had your four pillars, you had four values. You just talked about how they evolved.

[00:07:26] So the question I've got for you around that is, how did you go about making sure they were genuine values that the business believed in? Yeah, so you know, first part is you've got to walk the talk.

[00:07:39] You know, so if I wasn't delivering on those, then how could I expect anyone else around me to deliver on those four pillars? And so that was just repetition, a lot of communication being on the site.

[00:07:55] And you've also got to remember that when I joined the organization, it was the middle of lockdown one. Okay. You know, there was heightened stress, a lot of uncertainty.

[00:08:05] You know, we were a critical supplier into the supply chain for vaccines and medicine around finding a cure for COVID. But you know, we were asking a lot of these very young people to come in and work together in that very stressed environment.

[00:08:22] And so constantly being on the deck in the early days. So I spent, you know, I don't live in Cambridge. I was driving across at five o'clock at five a.m. on a Monday morning and heading home at Thursday afternoon at five o'clock.

[00:08:36] So lots of time with the team and being in the trenches with them was really important to earn that trust and to make sure that the values were coming through. But how it evolved was really when we came to acquire a business called SensO Biotechnologies.

[00:08:54] And they were, you know, simply is where we were weak, they were strong. So they had great science, lots of scientific maturity, wonderful customers, but your traditional CRO and a lot of wonderful cell lines in the freezes and fridges that they weren't exploiting.

[00:09:09] And where we were strong was probably on the much more repetitive and stickier customer relationship with a commercial team and a little bit more pizzazz, I suppose, around marketing and product. But the two, when you joined them together, I had this wonderful asset.

[00:09:25] You know, this wonderful bunch of people that were really good at what they do. But then that's the easy part, the difficult part is getting him to believe in it. So yeah, for sure. As I said, those four values were mine.

[00:09:38] And so, you know, they've served me well, but they're not necessarily relatable to the other 43 people now in this new joint business. So we went and engaged with all the employees within the organisation, because when you bring two businesses together, it's a complete reset.

[00:09:55] All the work that you've done to date, forget about it, it starts again. So as we were just getting to a point where the Axel Foundation business and then we decided to go make life difficult for ourselves. But it's been a great journey and a lot of fun.

[00:10:10] But needless to say, when we engage with the staff, they, you know, I asked, well, these are mine. What do you think? And I'm a tremendous believer in the why.

[00:10:20] Why is it that you get out of bed every day and turn up to work and do what you do? And unless you've got a real strong affinity with the why and how in your employee base

[00:10:32] and the company's vision and the company's values, right, then it's just hard work. So you've got to make sure that's really tight. So I wanted to listen to and to hear what the employees and the talent in your organisation were saying.

[00:10:48] And so they came back and they said, well, we really like the performance and the accountability. We love the transparency because in science, we want to, you know, a problem shared is a problem halved. So we like that.

[00:10:58] The honesty part, they said, well, that's that's a hygiene factor. We really shouldn't have that. So they decided to change that out with acting with integrity. OK, which I think was much, much better. And you know, it's it has a meaning to it.

[00:11:15] You can hold yourself to that. People protect their integrity. You're born with it as my dad would say, you're born with it and it's yours to lose every other day of your life that you're alive. So that was great for them to come back with that.

[00:11:27] Diversity and inclusion was brought on the table. And I thought this was fantastic from from the employees because we're represented by, I think at the moment, 17 different cultural backgrounds in a 43 person organization. Wow. You know, and not just from that, but we obviously have a very healthy gender

[00:11:46] mix as well across the organization. And we've driven that and it's because I think if you bring in a broad depth and breadth of talent and people into your organization, you get a better problem solving outcome. You know, you become a little bit more understanding and empathetic

[00:12:04] towards how other people view the world or how they view the problem. And if you can harness that, you know, it just in our business of science and interacting with complex science and solving complex problems, having

[00:12:18] that background of different different ways of doing things helps us get there quicker. So the diverse inclusion was really important. And then finally, the other one that the organization came back with was a collaborative culture, you know, and again, science is about collaboration.

[00:12:34] Sometimes it doesn't seem like that. I think in an academic sense, there's a little bit more competition there. But certainly in our business where we're trying to solve really complex problems with STEM, IPSE, stem cells and neurodegeneration disease modeling, you know, we've got to collaborate with each other.

[00:12:52] We have to collaborate with our customers. And through that collaboration with the transparency, with acting with integrity and the performance of that relationship and being accountable within the contract contract and supporting a global, diverse customer base. All those things come together every day and everything that we do.

[00:13:11] And so that's what we ended up with. So it was performance, accountability, transparency, acting with integrity, diversity and inclusion and a collaborative culture. And so that was it. So the team were then able to, like, that's what we are. That's what we believe in.

[00:13:25] And these are our values. And that's your starting point. That's ground zero for any rebuild or any change program. And so we're really happy to get to that. Awesome. Awesome. And you mentioned change there and I'll come on to that in a minute.

[00:13:39] Philip, I'm going to put it on the spot. I know you love it when I do this. You know, Liam was talking about the why there. And I think it's important, obviously, most people will. Well, not most people actually. I do talk to some people about Simon,

[00:13:53] Sionic or Sinnick or however people say it. And he always talks about the start with why, but a lot of people haven't heard of that. What's your why, Philip? Why do you get out of bed in the morning and do what you do?

[00:14:05] I think my actually why it has been from day dot is that I've got meaning to my work, that what I'm doing has an impact. And I think that's why I enjoy working in science, because although not

[00:14:17] doing the science anymore in the lab, I'm helping to put the right people in the lab that can move a project forward, that could then have an impact on a patient and the wider industry. So for me, it's having meaningful work and also understanding how my role fits

[00:14:34] into that bigger picture. OK, awesome. And that's why I'm presuming. How many years have you been here now? Nine, nine years, is it, Sondri? Nineteen. Yeah. Come on, I was trying to do your favor there. You can leave him off the Christmas card list now. Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:51] I joined the equipment at the tender age of 80. Yeah, exactly. I was trying to do your favor. No, 19 years, right? So that must resonate to why you're still here at SRG. And of the top of my head and I don't want to speak for you,

[00:15:07] but I also know you've got a bit of a cough today. I, you know, we're about harnessing now and creating tomorrow's world. Yes, that's our strap line, but there's values that lie underneath that. And you just talked then about how, you know, you want to be impactful.

[00:15:23] You want to within the sector that you work in and working for a business that's so passionate about creating tomorrow's world. And I'm not trying to put a plug here for SRG, but I'm just trying to look at the synergy between you,

[00:15:35] your why and the business that you work for. And I can really see that. Liam, we had a similar journey when I may have talked about some prior podcast, but it's worth repeating when I took over the SRG. I asked the same question.

[00:15:51] I sat down with with the guys and I said, why do we do what you do? Why do you do it? And Hannah and Keith, two leaders of the search team said, we want to be impactful. And they were both so animated in saying that.

[00:16:13] I think it's the right word to use. We want to be impactful. We want to make a difference in science. So he said, OK, how do we do that through our role? Through helping companies procure talent. And they said, well, people need to be impactful.

[00:16:29] They need to stay there. They need to stay. They need to be retained in those companies. They need to last there to make a change. OK, fantastic. How do we how do we do that? And we had a little thing and we thought, OK, data,

[00:16:42] we need to improve the data that we're providing our customers so they can make the right hiring decisions for their business and contest the whole person so those people can be retained in their in their business. And that's what we became. We came search by SRG,

[00:16:59] a data driven resource solution. And it's I'm pleased to say it's very successful. The people Keith and Hannah are still here and we've then hired into the team based on on that. People that want to be impactful in the industry. So what you're saying really resonates with me.

[00:17:15] And I hope it resonates for those that are listening as well. Good stuff. So change, you touched upon change. That's a massive topic that we could probably spend a whole another podcast talking about. I've been in quite a few companies that have gone through a lot of change.

[00:17:33] And he may listen to this podcast, so I don't want to talk in there too much. But I think the best change management I've had in prior companies and I won't talk about where I am at the moment.

[00:17:46] It got about as good as a who moved my cheese on my desk in the morning when I came in prior to a prior to a big announcement. So. What what did you do to or what would be your top tips in change management?

[00:18:02] Yeah, so it's a good question because, you know, I think when we initially discussed doing this podcast. A couple of weeks back, I actually went and asked a couple of my my team that have been in the business and were there.

[00:18:20] You know, so there are five core employees that were there at the beginning within the Axel team that are still here today. And there is about seven core employees in the sensors business that are still here today in its current form.

[00:18:35] So I went and asked those guys, look, I'm going to get asked this question. What was your view around that? And the comment feedback was for them is that I set out very quickly and very clearly where I wanted to take the business.

[00:18:52] So, you know, quite Stephen Kovey, you know, begin with the end in mind. I painted a vision and a picture of what we could be if we all work together. And if we all stop doing all the unnecessary stuff that drag, you know,

[00:19:06] they just create chaos, you know, let's get the basic the basic business. Right. Let's eliminate the noise. Let's focus on where we can win and where we can be successful. So that was the certainly a clear message that came back.

[00:19:20] You know, it sounds simply you just came in and you gave really clear communication that came across as authentic and that, you know, it made sense. That was the first part. The second part was being there in the trenches with the guys as they're

[00:19:37] going through it at all levels. You know, so I don't do offices. I buy hot desk whenever I go to the site. I've always been that way. I think it's probably a little bit more of an Australian cultural piece is to be

[00:19:53] much more open and transparent around what you're doing as a leader as a person. So going through that and then realising that actually there hasn't been, you know, you've got to coach people through change. You have to some in some respects educate them through it.

[00:20:11] So all these feelings, all these stresses, all this anxiety that the business was having and the individuals in it. I haven't gone through that before. You know, I have a really young workforce, particularly in the early days of the axle and they not experienced it.

[00:20:27] So and I realised that so we did every Friday for a good period for a couple of months, we just have a 30 minutes. Take it out. Take the team out of what they were doing. And educate them about change. Where were they on that change curve?

[00:20:44] You know, some of them would be at the angry stage. Some would be at the denial stage. Some would be right at the front end of the curve and they've already got themselves through it and they're engaged and motivated.

[00:20:56] But it was getting them to all understand they're all at different stages and that's OK. And that's perfectly OK. And everything you're experiencing at this point is normal change behaviour. So that was the first part. The second part for me was creating an environment where

[00:21:15] they could be vulnerable and it was safe to challenge and it was safe to to, you know, to be different and to push back. But in a positive way, you know, so no but why? You know, or no but it wasn't a point of I can't do that.

[00:21:33] That wasn't acceptable. I had to come through it with a positive outcome or a positive reason for that change. Now, to get that again, if you all cast your minds back as to where we were middle of lockdown one, loads of uncertainty, supply chain in tatters,

[00:21:52] human capital shortages because of Brexit and obviously people being furloughed. And then you've got the added challenge within the Cambridge market where whoever's got the new shiny thing with the new with the big bag of cash

[00:22:06] backed by good funding, it becomes the most attractive place to be in Cambridge. I refer to it still as the insular peninsula. But so I had all those things going on. But we invested a lot of time and effort in mental health and well-being.

[00:22:20] So I brought in a consultant to give the team and the people in the business the tools they needed to cope through that. And that was just little things, believe it or not, going back to basics about

[00:22:32] diet and the impact on blood sugar has on your stress and your flight flight flight or flight response, sleep, time management and planning, you know, communication styles and whether your visual, auditory, kinesthetic, all these little things. And I sat in and I did those sessions with the team.

[00:22:51] So I was again in the trenches with them and it was fantastic because I can understand who they were, why they were responding the way they were. And I could then change my style of communication to affect that.

[00:23:02] And ultimately, change is about trust and if you've got to earn that trust, you know, while I say that, that's probably not true. I have a simple philosophy in life. I give you my trust and it's yours to lose.

[00:23:17] You know, I have never said to anyone you've got to earn it. And I think that's a different mindset as well, the place towards building trust quickly with people. Yeah, definitely. I mean, you referenced Stephen Covey at the start of earlier in the conversation.

[00:23:31] And obviously he talks about to receive that trust from the work, you know, you've got to extend it and it was going to be a question of mine as to how you built it, but you've already answered it in. Well, actually, you give it from the off.

[00:23:48] You put that trust in people. They will reciprocate that until it's broken. And I think that's the right way to go about it certainly for myself. Philip, when you're listening to Liam's speech, there's a lot of synergies in there between, you know what?

[00:24:01] I'm going to cut myself across there. I would really love to be, you know, controversial and disagreeing and challenging and create really like, you know, podcast in many ways. But there are so many synergies in what you're saying that actually

[00:24:18] really align to I think how Philip are and I feel and certainly the business like you talked about basics. We have is it beautiful basics for the per here? Yeah. Well, you know, Kelly talks about getting back to basics.

[00:24:29] Again, you know, Kelly, our CEO of STEM here when she's in the office, you know, comes into the desk next to whoever, you know, unless there's a confidential meeting that needs to happen, no, she's on the floor with everybody. There's a real lot of synergies and I think

[00:24:47] that's really, really interesting hearing you talk about that. And then thinking about the journey, S R G have come on, which I think is quite similar actually in many ways. OK, OK. So we talked about trust. I really appreciate your key points on on change management.

[00:25:05] We've talked about values and you mentioned about that kind of seven core individuals, I think I can't remember the exact expression you used. And you've talked about that transparency and feedback as well. And I'm just kind of recapping on what you talked about.

[00:25:23] One of the things that come from me and Philip are interested to see if you've had any experience of it as a leader as well. Is that honestly from your team? And you've got to create that environment. So if you think about creating a positive workplace culture,

[00:25:38] my one is they've got to be that trusted, that safe environment to challenge directly. Yeah. Kim Scott talks about radical candor care personally while challenging directly. And I can remember doing a launch last year with with a new look team. We'd hired a fair bit, just small team.

[00:25:56] We doubled the size of it and I did a launch and I was like, oh, I got off the call. That went brilliantly. I was buzzing. I was like, yes, everyone's fired up. My phone went and Jan, one of the individuals that works with me

[00:26:12] and I've worked with her in a pride company. She just asked me a question. She said and I don't want to try and sound hierarchical here, but she reports into me. But I think it's good that our listeners are aware of that.

[00:26:24] You know, this is somebody that reports into me. So this is managing up. She said, Jacob, how do you think that went? And I was like, Jan, it was brilliant, wasn't it? Everyone was fired up. Yes, great. And I was really like patting myself on the back.

[00:26:35] She's like, no, Jacob, I don't think so. I can't remember exactly what it was, but she said, I don't think it came across like that. I think people are going to feel a bit anxious. I think people are going to feel a bit worried about this.

[00:26:47] And I didn't agree with Jan, but I took it on board and I thought, right, Jan feels like that. And maybe maybe there are others. And I did and I called around the team and I asked and some did and some some didn't feel the same way.

[00:27:01] And those that had perceived what I'd said to the same way that Jan had, I was able to actually reframe it better and they felt much more comfortable. And I have thanked Jan and for that. And that's what I really encourage all of everybody that works with me

[00:27:17] to to challenge directly because I know it's coming from a pace of care. Yeah, I think that's really important. Yeah, but to get that care, I think, Jacob, you've obviously created a safe environment and that's that's I think a critical aspect.

[00:27:32] So, you know, I completely relate to where you where you the example you've just given every month. I give a company update just on where we where we've been, where we're at, where we're going to go in the next 30 days. And it's not my natural favored position.

[00:27:52] I'm not a one to many communicator. I much do a sort of one to one or one to a few communication styles. So and particularly then when you throw in remote workforces, having to do some of this, not usually in person, yeah, it just it just amplifies.

[00:28:07] And one of the toughest things for me as I've grown into leadership roles is being really balanced in your communication and sensitive to the audience. You know, I'm Australian at heart. You know, I'm not backwards and coming forwards typically. I'm usually usually pretty blunt.

[00:28:29] But but living I think 14 years and living in the UK is probably mellowed me a lot in terms of that. But every time I give one of those presentations, I said, OK, I think that went down well when you call around to get the feedback from the

[00:28:46] from the troops and, you know, I do reach out to not just my leadership team, but a lot of other employees and talent in the business. And there's always that one person or two people that say, no,

[00:28:58] I didn't like what you said that or I didn't know that point really didn't come across as you should. And I think you know, there's two things to that. One that's you're always going to have it.

[00:29:10] And you can't connect with every single person at that right moment in time at that level within the business, which is why, you know, we do a lot of value based communication. I'll talk a little bit about some of the platforms we use there if you don't mind.

[00:29:26] But the second thing is how awesome is it that they can actually come up to the come up to me and actually say, yeah, you didn't nail that, that taint. Or, you know, you might need to clarify your wording on this next month

[00:29:39] because it was a little bit ambiguous, you know. And and that's the type of environment that we've worked really bloody hard to achieve and to set that culturally. And that's for me, it comes down to two things. Well, three things. Number one, showing vulnerability.

[00:29:59] You know, I don't get all the calls right. You know, I have bad days as well as other people. And so being vulnerable in that moment. And certainly having number two, that's first number one. Number two is having a really good leadership team around you.

[00:30:15] Our leadership team at the moment is absolutely, I think, is firing on all four signal cylinders. We can be very candid with each other. We can robustly debate or disagree. But as soon as we commit, we commit to the decision.

[00:30:30] And so we've had some experience, sadly, we've had some experiences in that in the past at leadership level, as well as more operational level. And that's something that Sonya, Ansel, my HR director and I review religiously because that's the type of personalities you don't want

[00:30:50] any business, particularly one that's going through change. Thanks, Liam. Yeah, and apologies, I've been listening to background without trying to cough. I'm doing so quite good so far. But yeah, just to touch on some of your points. I love the whole creating that safe and vulnerable space.

[00:31:06] I think that just naturally will foster more questions, more ideas, more innovation. So I think that's great. And as Jacob says, that's very much also to man to hear at SRG. But what I'm really interested to understand is you've got the team,

[00:31:20] you've created those values that are meaningful. And I love the fact that you've got the employees on board with that. I think that's great engagement. What I'm really interested to understand is with any change management going forward, how do you protect that? How do you keep that momentum?

[00:31:37] And also what I'm really interested to understand is how are you going to embed those values into your hiring strategy to make sure that anybody else that joins Axol is the right people to continue this momentum? Yeah, that's a great, great, great question.

[00:31:53] And it's you've just got to protect what you've started. So there's a couple of things there that we've done, some of it unique and some of it, in my view, old school. So the first part of that is if I just answer it in reverse order

[00:32:11] in the recruitment process, you typically the candidates will go through to definitely two, maybe three interviews with a presentation. I've interviewed all but one new joiner to our organization over the last sort of two and a half years.

[00:32:30] And I'm not there to make the decision of whether they're in or they're out of Axol, but I'm there to communicate the values. It's really important that they hear that from the leader of the organization. They've heard it.

[00:32:45] Through from Sonia as she screens initial candidates as head of HR. They then hear that from the hiring manager as well. But for me, it's you can say these things and look, I've been in organizations where you

[00:32:59] put up your values on a post during the wall and that's what we are. And to me, again, I didn't have any connection as to why with that. And I didn't feel that affinity. So for me, there's always a conversation with new joiners or potential

[00:33:14] candidates around the values that we are still in this organization. I'm very clear that this is it. This is really matters. So we have that very affront conversation. We made it very clear through the whole process. So if that individual come, they know what they're getting themselves into.

[00:33:31] And then obviously they know what's expected value wise is from day one. That's the first element. It's the second element which is a little bit unique is we have a variable pay structure. So being in a competitive market, we want to keep our talent.

[00:33:52] We have very, very intelligent people with amazing skills that solve complex problems. So it's in our interest to make sure that talent is engaged and retained in the business. We go through a lot of recruitment process. We spend a lot of time in that.

[00:34:07] You know, so unless you invest in it through ensuring rewards and benefits are right and your variable pay structure reflects values, it's you're not going to keep them. And so we have a certain percentage of everyone's variable pay in the

[00:34:21] organization tied to demonstrating and living those values every day they turn up to work. Now, that's easy to put in place. What's difficult is that values are subjective. You know, my view of someone's behavior or are they living those values is

[00:34:40] completely different to their line manager or completely different to themselves, how they think they're behaving and how they're enabling or ingratiating themselves to those values in the organization. And so it becomes subjective and that's never a good place to be when you're looking at variable pay.

[00:34:58] So what we did is we went out to market, we were looking for a platform that promoted positivity in the workforce because I also found because we've got a younger workforce, there's a lot of social channels, WhatsApp and such that, you know, in your going through change,

[00:35:18] those WhatsApp channels can become an echo chamber of negativity. And so we wanted to create a platform that was much more positive, that people could get on there, praise each other for the good work that they've done.

[00:35:34] And so we invested in a platform called Moe, Moments at Work. And there are others out there as well in the marketplace. But we felt this one was the right one for the size of organization we were.

[00:35:47] And, you know, it's about getting on there and saying, well, great, you've done this moment of work today. It might be with Landa, the new customer. It might actually be we've just nailed a triculture experiment for a customer that's enabled some fantastic data.

[00:36:05] It might be, hey, thanks for coming and helping me out in the store and cleaning out these fridges and freezers. It's about an opportunity for others to praise their work colleagues. And what that does is that you have a history of those values and behaviors

[00:36:25] being called out on a platform that leaves, you know, I'm going to count on that heart. There is a there's a trail of it. You can't fake that. You can't you can't sort of just get through it for the first three months. It's a sustained effort.

[00:36:39] And what it does is it positivity breeds positivity. It's like winning becomes a habit, right? And so if you're on there and you're doing it, it just feels simply positive energy. If I'm having a bad day, I'll jump on there and have a look at what great things

[00:36:57] that the people within Axel are doing to drive success for our customers, to support each other in their work. And you just want you jump off it and you feel good about what you're doing. And so that was that was the three elements.

[00:37:14] Be clear up front what's expected, try and incentivize people to tie that through, measured that in a traditional sense that you can see consistency and activity around that. And now with the three parts that really drove it. And then finally, it's obviously goal setting,

[00:37:35] you know, making sure that our values come through in our company metrics. So performance and accountability. We want X percent of revenue growth this year. We want transparency in what we do. So how many follow on projects have we got? What's our customer complaint rate?

[00:37:57] If we look at diversity inclusion, 17 of our 43 people are coming from a different cultural backgrounds. These are things that I measure and that I communicate down through the organization to reinforce it. But the importance of the individual goals,

[00:38:14] being able to see what they do in their role that ties to their function, that ties to the company success. And that's the final part of it really for me, how it all ties together, how we protect it and we can we continue to reinforce it.

[00:38:30] Brilliant. And I think that reinforcing is so important. That's fantastic and great question, Philip. So as we come to the end of the podcast, Liam, Philip will be aware of this and may have been making some notes and having some bullet points.

[00:38:46] So I'm really sorry, I am going to put you on the spot. What we like to do, what we like to do, Liam, is just wrap up with kind of a summary and a couple of takeaway

[00:38:55] points for our listeners because we do cover quite a lot in these podcasts and some some deep stuff. So, Liam, I'll come to you first. There's Philip and I'll take the really difficult part of going last and hoping that I'm not going to regurgitate something you've already done.

[00:39:10] Everyone's done the hard work for you, Jacob. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, either that or I'm going to have to like really try and think of something you haven't already said. So, Liam, for right, well, in it, in the shoes of

[00:39:26] anybody actually that's working for a business that's about to go through that kind of change or that are looking at the culture of their organization. What are the top? We'll go with two. What are the top two bits of advice or takeaways that you would you would

[00:39:41] give to those individuals? Yeah, I think number one is define your values that you want to create in the organization and and ensuring that those values tie in at a very personal level to each individual's why, you know, why do they do what they do?

[00:39:59] Why do they turn up to your your your business every day? I think that's number one. Number two is probably clarity of vision. Where did we want to go as an organization? How do those values that we've decided on

[00:40:18] enable us to get there through creating a really positive culture? And then number three, I know you've asked for two, but number three is a quite is a clear strategy. You know, you know, I still quote it, you know, culture, each strategy for breakfast.

[00:40:34] You know, values and culture together are really powerful. But if you've got a knockout strategy, then, you know, strap yourself in because your business is going to just go to the moon. So, you know, it still should not be forgotten about. Absolutely. Right.

[00:40:48] You fill it up over yourself. Yeah, I've also got three. Liam's already nicked on of mine. It was obviously values. So but obviously, yeah, I think just emphasizing the importance of values and just making sure they're meaningful for employees. But I guess I'll replace that one to say,

[00:41:06] I really think these pollcasters just really emphasize, you know, don't be afraid of change, you know, change can be a great thing. And although it can be a difficult journey at times, you know, great things can come from change and it's really about getting people on board.

[00:41:20] I think my second thing that's really stood out from what Liam said is I love the fact that he really went back to basis. I mean, you essentially did a SWAT analysis back, so you really bottomed out. These are all strengths guys. These are our weaknesses.

[00:41:34] And I think by doing that, it really allowed you to step back, create that vision and then start to build and grow. And I think, you know, it is all about going back to basics and being honest about what you're good at and what you're not good at.

[00:41:46] Yes. And then the third and final one, which I think is a real passion of mine is I think this is such a great example of diversity and inclusion. You know, these shows the huge benefits and the positive impact

[00:42:00] you can have by creating a workforce that's diverse and inclusive. You know, all those ideas, bringing all those people together. I just think this is a great example and it's something that should be really celebrated, you know, 17 cultural backgrounds across your workforce.

[00:42:15] I mean, I just think that's such a great achievement. Thanks, Philip. That means a lot. That's great. No, it really is. It really is. And we won't go into it now. Maybe we'll get you one again.

[00:42:24] But what I was really one of the questions I was going to ask and we could talk forever about it. So we'll save it for another day. But I was really interested to think about how all of that diversity in the

[00:42:35] business, how like their wise must be must be so different. Their their their social backgrounds, the diversity there must be so different. So it'd be really interesting to explore that maybe in the future. My my three I will go with three

[00:42:53] embedding, the embedding of of it and keeping it alive, keeping those values alive, keeping cultural life. I think I taught at the start about how to create a positive workplace culture. And I think actually it's how to create and embed a positive workplace culture.

[00:43:08] And that's something that that book stand for something to talk so importantly about and you've used some fantastic examples today around making sure that your values are not just your values, but they go and they touch your your pay structure. They go and touch how you're rewarding,

[00:43:22] recognition, recognizing the staff. They go in the messaging to your customers who the customers are that you're working with because they will retain working with you because they have shared vision and values. 100 percent. That's that's the first one.

[00:43:35] The second one for me is that is absolutely sharing your goals and your vision. I've made a mistake before to just think this is what we need to do. And I've not shared my end vision and goal clearly enough. I learned that previously.

[00:43:49] I came to SIG in the teams that I'm in now and we know what we were striving for. We've just hit our three year goal now. And now it's about setting new goals for the next next three years. So that's that's my second fully agree.

[00:44:02] And the third and final is that safe environment. I know we all agree with this and all agree with the summary points. That safe environment where people can challenge directly in a positive way, not whinging, I'm talking about that or complaining, but to actually positively

[00:44:19] challenge and call leaders out and manage up, I think is incredibly important. So yeah, they're my three takeaways. I fully agree with yours also both of you. But make sure you celebrate that success you've had. That's the other good thing as well. Yeah, the small milestones, right?

[00:44:39] You've got to get that positive yeah force and celebrate success, celebrate those little in recruitment. Just bringing it back like a great example is everyone thinks are you celebrate when you make that placement? Absolutely not.

[00:44:54] We celebrate and I encourage my teams to celebrate when we find the right sort of candidates, when we get those interviews, when we deliver the short lists, when we get a meeting with the customer, we've been really wanting to work with because we align to their business.

[00:45:07] Not OK, we may not win that, but if the big wins, that's going to be too far between. So actually let's celebrate small ones as well. I couldn't agree more. Terrific. Brilliant. Liam, it's been an absolute pleasure.

[00:45:21] Fill apart well done for recognizing this would be a great topic and celebrate creating a positive workplace culture. Thank you both. It's been it's been loads of fun and again, it's lovely to be able to have people recognize the change that Axis has gone through externally

[00:45:40] and be able to celebrate that with you guys here on the podcast this morning. So thank you very much and very honored. Make sure you click subscribe to listen to future Think Bigger podcasts and to listen to our previous podcast, visit srgTanon.com.

[00:46:01] Click on insights and podcast and make sure to follow srg on LinkedIn to keep up to date on the latest insights and articles to inspire yourself and also your workplace.